DeleD Community Edition

[Lascar]

I noticed on harpers village (outstanding work) he is able to go inside some of his houses and some of your models appear to work the same.
I presume you are both using solids for the walls?
And the windows are textures rather than voids?
May I ask, what modelling techniques are you using to allow inside and outside roaming and how they are different from normal modelling?
They obviously are
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[AWM Mars]

I create my models as normal, using insert/extrude etc, creating the spaces. I then export it into our platform as a visual object.

I make another version, using basic prims for collidable surfaces, and export that into our platform as a non-visible object, without any textures etc. This I then apply physics to, so the avatar/camera will be able to use all three dimensions.

Some models are low polycount so I am able to use the same model for both visible, and applied physics. It very much depends on the model itself. Using a 'tri-soup' physical skin for collisions in a very complicated model, can eat up computational cycles like crazy, as physics are realtime.

There are several good platforms, or scene creators, as they are sometimes known. Some will cost as much as $250,000+ per year, others are free. Some accept formats like OBJ, Collada, .X and even forms/schemeas of xml to create/place content within the 3D scene. You can then apply physical properties to each model, depending on their function.

You can use alpha textures for glass, even within a polygon frame/window. However, some platforms use different alpha formats. On that basis, I normally create a polygon face for the glass texture, and then apply a glass texture inside the platform, that is native, and where I can make adjustments.
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[Lascar]

Thanks for the info, very interesting.
But I think perhaps I didn't word my question very well.
By “modelling techniques”, I was referring to the creation of the 3D model. Not that I don't find your post-model manipulations uninteresting, I do, but that's not what I was enquiring about.
Let me put it another way; as I see it, when a cube is made in DeleD the visible part is the outside (that's what is textured). If a doorway were added and one “walked inside” there would be nothing to see as you would be looking at the wrong side of the polygon. The only way I can see this would work would be to use walls made with two sides (like a thin cube) But to make a model like that would be a step away from the normal modelling methods, which is what I was interested in.
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[AWM Mars]

Ahh I understand. Well it depends on how the model is being made. I use extrude/inset more and more, as it is a cleaner method of model making. If the polygons are wrongly faced on the inside, I flip them, or create them by linking vertices and or, extruding edges and connecting everything. I used to use the 'Prim gluing' method. Either way works, except if you are applying internal physics as opposed to purely external. Overlapping prims are not good for the physics system to cope with.

Tri-Soup physics is very CPU costly, but for complicated and hollow models, its a must. Convex Hull is okay for simple hollows, Capsule is mainly for spheres or Avatars, and Box for simple external walled models.

I'm told it is either better to leave a small gap, or use 2 seperate walls, one for either face of the outer surface of a wall, if you cannot use a thick wall, so the physics can cope/register the impact at speed and respond quicker. That is why I create collidable invisible versions, as leaving small gaps everywhere isnt good visually.
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[Lascar]

Flipping I understand but you mentioned a lot of things that lost me.
Thanks for the information.
I will do some searching and find out what it all means
When my modelling skills are good enough with DeleD I want to model the school were I work (I modelled my previous school with OpenFX) but this time I want to do the inside as well as the outside, hence my interest in inside and outside 3D roaming.
Sorry for hijacking your thread.
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[AWM Mars]

Basically, you have to make a cube hollow to create the inside surfaces. In vector based modelling, if you fly into a cube, its empty, not solid. So you have to create a skin for every surface you want the user to see, bump into or walk on.

Prim based platforms like Second Life, as you pass through a prim, you become 'blind' except for seeing a plywood texture, so they appear solid.

Create a Cube, select one polygon (face) and use the Inset function (default settings are fine), with the resulting frammed face selected from the inset, choose and use Extrude, move the face inside the cube to create a hollow, but internally faced cube. If you cannot use any other method for building, use cubes and extract them from the walls to make windows/doors etc.. even use them for internal floors with opennings for stairs. Its crude, but works.

With greater control/use of extrude and inset, you can create a whole building, exterior and interior from a single cube.
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[Lascar]

Yes, I see where your going with it now.
Inset/extrude of a cube would work, walls split and extruded, the roof could be separate or extruded and welded. Solid geometry can also be used to good effect.
For it to work the 3D model has to be made right in the first place, so yes, seems makable now.
Food for thought
Thanks
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[harper]

Hi Lascar!
First: Thanks for the compliment.
For my scenery i construct pure outside-view-models of houses, that i place in my terrain-editor. The inside-views of houses are complete different models i make only in DeleD. Those models have windows cut in the outer walls, where i place big flat boxes with screenshots of the surrounding landscape on it, in some distance to that window for a 3D-like view "outside".
No house in "Meynheim" is really enter-able. Its all only fake.

[AWM Mars]

In the Scottish Castle project, 3 of the main buildings are enterable. The Gate House, the Melly Inner Bailey and the Appartments (2 rooms). You can also walk some of the battlement walls and of course, all of the grounds.
The hardest part about creating buildings that have interiors is visible space. All too often we will build all the walls and roof etc, then try building inside that cramped visible space. Pulling up walls from the edges of floors, is a good last job, once you have created all the interior.

I did create a very large exhibition hall over 5 floors with stair access. The building could hold up to 1500 people quite comfortably.
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[Lascar]

harper posted:
The inside-views of houses are complete different models i make only in DeleD.

Changing to a different model is one way I thought would work, so interesting to know I'm not the only one who thinks that way.

.... i place big flat boxes with screenshots of the surrounding landscape on it, in some distance to that window for a 3D-like view "outside" ....

That's a nice touch and a simple solution to the "lets look out the window action". I will have to remember that one
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[AWM Mars]

Whilst the flat picture of an outside does work, for greater realsim you have to take into account parralexing. This is where objects closer move faster as you move and turn. Flat pictures cannot do that. As we are working in 3D, why break the illusion when looking beyond a window?
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[Lascar]

AWM Mars posted:
All too often we will build all the walls and roof etc., then try building inside that cramped visible space.

I supposed that's were switching to a different model over comes the problem. An important consideration that needs thinking about at the start, rather than after the model has been finished outside.

why break the illusion when looking beyond a window?

That's where a single model would win, but then the outside needs to be interesting or there is no point in looking out the window.
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[AWM Mars]

You can now get access into our 3D content

Access is via a Demo route, which means you cannot use/have a lot of the functionality of the system, but you can get into the worlds for a walk about and chat to eachother.

Got to http://www.yourinside.com click the 'Try Our Demo Grid' text button, this will walk you through installing a pluggin into your browser (we strongly recomend you use IE for now), once installed, restart the browser and navigate back to the last page you were at, and click the Proceed button to gain a short orientation.

You will find yourself at the 'Login' page. As you do not have an account and we have turnned off that entry point for now, scroll to the bottom of the page and click the 'Take a look at the demo version'

This then takes you to the demo Control page

The options available, choose your gender from the drop down list box, then simply click a thumbnail picture of a 'default' avatar on offer (custom and high poly avatars are available to account holders only), you will see the Avatar URL change (if not, try clicking again). Then click the Save button.
Now you can navigate to a world that you wish to visit, simply click either the world name in red, or the thumbnail picture. This takes you to the Kiosk Page:

This is the basic Kiosk page. Account holders and their guests get a media panel, audio setup and control, moderator controls, animation/guesture controls, skinning options etc.

When you first use any environment, it has to download onto your system. Most worlds are between 2-10mb in size. Once downloaded, they can take between 1-2 minutes to render and setup on your system (Don't panic if it seems frozen, go make coffee or something). No environment installs any files etc on your system, it only stores them in a cache. The reason for the delay in rendering the world after download (it needs to creat links to the Induality Plugin you installed in your browser), is partially due to the actual rendering, but also due to the array of security protocols it establishes. The system only opens a couple of standard ports used over the internet and should not cause anything unusual, even if you are behind a firewall.

What may not be apparent to anyone is the Kiosk is a secure wrapper system that incorporates a Virtual Environment (In demo mode, no security is available). The levels of security the system can reach for all forms of comminucation and collaboration is currently 2048 bit encryption. At its lowest levels it is set at 256 bit encryption.

Bookings for secure meeting spaces can be done using the inbuilt system, or it can link to a variety of popular appointment schedulers like Outlook.

Because of the way we control the environments, a single environment can be used many times, at the sametime, by different groups, with no security crossover. We are also able to offer environments that will support 100's of concurrent users.

Enjoy the demo. I'm adding new content all the time.
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[Jeroen]

Very nice! I enjoyed walking around in the loft. Looking outside and seeing actual 3D buildings was very enjoyable. The chess world was fun too. The huge pieces made me feel really small.
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[AWM Mars]

Glad you enjoyed the experience. The Loft world was my very first building created in DeleD. It has evolved quite a bit, as my experience grew and along with the Chess World, is one of my all time favourites

In my opinion, the world which really gives perspective externally when looking out of the 'windows' is the Space Station world. The rotating space station is actually full size to scale. You get that sense of huge scale as you rotate your view, its unmistakable and cannot be replicated using scaled down models or flat pictures.

I sometimes just spend time looking out of the window at the stars etc, with a bit of imagination, you could almost be there
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Politeness is priceless when received, cost nothing to own or give, yet some cannot afford.

Checkout:
http://www.awm.mars.yourinside.com/
http://www.bccservices.co.uk
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