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adr
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Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:12 pm    Post subject: Nothing new after 2 months? Reply with quote

Hey deled community... I been watching the the work that's been going on... and it seems to have just stop~ Are we going to see a new version of CE soon? I know the work in programming can take a while to update and sort, but no work at all seems sorta... not good?
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Jeroen
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Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 5334
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I myself have not been able to work on DeleD, although I visit the forum multiple times every day. Don't know about other programmers though. Chronozphere told me he and Paul want to finish the path functionality they've been working on but I don't know the current status of that. Do note that summer-time is traditionally a slow time... Wink
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chronozphere
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Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 1010
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I haven't done anything with DeleD during the last weeks. The problem is that I've lost motivation, not only for DeleD, but for some of my own projects aswell. Implementing the paths in DeleD was way more work than I expected. I'm not sure if I can get motivated again. Sad
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paul_nicholls
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Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 356
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey all,
well like chronozphere, I have not been motivated to do much of any programming these last few weeks outside of work Sad

This has mainly been due to creating very important software tools/utilities at my work using Delphi/Excel Visual Basic, and as such I haven't wanted to do any similar programming outside of work for a while...bummer...

I DO want to try and do more of the plugin tools, but not sure when that will be though.

I have only wanted to do some small 'fun' programming stuff when I HAVE been programming.

I will get back to doing DeleD stuff in the future though...

cheers,
Paul
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Hi ho...hi ho...it's off 3d modeling I go...
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AWM Mars
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 1195
Location: Wilts England

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totaly understand where you guys are coming from.... I'm the same with my modelling sometimes.

I can tell you guys this though... what DeleD is today, and what it means to us dumb artists, is huge. I have downloaded and installed many 'low poly modelling' programmes, main feature that caught my eye 'EASY TO USE'.. only to deinstall them within a week... I don't think they understand Artists workflows, or what EASY TO USE actually means... this is where DeleD is strides ahead of them.

I found myself constantly saying.. well why can't you bloody simply add this face.. In DeleD I simply do 'X' and its done.. LOL Shocked

If you really want an exciting project... you may want to catch up with flk about the MPEG format exporter. It is going to be as important in the near future, as Collada was/is. Having the ability to export direct from a modelling programme, will make it a choice for Artists.

Our tech team are currently building a parser for the dxs format, which is great for either singular models, or a scene, ready for a scene manager programme. Evolving DeleD to be able to control more scene management elements would be another huge step.
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Spaddlewit
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Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 244
Location: Florida, United States

PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If DeleD was written in C or C#, I would SO be a huge contributor...
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chronozphere
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Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 1010
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spaddlewit wrote:
If DeleD was written in C or C#, I would SO be a huge contributor...


I totally understand. If DeleD would be more plugin-based, it would be easier for others to extend. Right now, the plugins have very limited impact on how the program works, and still need a lot of base code (for models, polygon, textures etc) before you can really do interesting stuff with it.
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Jeroen
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Joined: 07 Aug 2004
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Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chronozphere wrote:
If DeleD would be more plugin-based, it would be easier for others to extend. Right now, the plugins have very limited impact on how the program works, and still need a lot of base code (for models, polygon, textures etc) before you can really do interesting stuff with it.


Yep, and I encourage you to rewrite the plugin system now that DeleD is open source.
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harper
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Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 283
Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:31 pm    Post subject: No news Reply with quote

No news are good news, i say!
When a forum visited frequently like this. and nearly nobody has something to say, it is a clearly positive vote for the program.
I am a victim of Soconne, who has abandoned the support. Two years of developing are scrap. Shame on Soconne, who could make his programme open-source or something else. But nothing. He's away. So i must take new looks on every engine, which has a useable world-editor to complete my thoughts. THAT'S BAD MANNER!
If anyone of you (beloved community) has an idea, how i can go on. tell it to me.
Meanwhile i found a group using OGRE, where i can work for.
But they make their own game - not mine.

Btw: 1 Deled-unit is approx. 1 cm in OGRE...
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Nocturn
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Joined: 08 Aug 2004
Posts: 635

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) It is summer.
2) School has just started around Europe
3) DeleD takes some time to Develop, i remember the timespan between 1.6 and 2.0 :p

However i'm also a little worried like adr. There is still tons of stuff to do in DeleD and i hope people start to develop soon again. It's my daily bread & butter :)
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Starnick
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Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 611

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spaddlewit wrote:
If DeleD was written in C or C#, I would SO be a huge contributor...


Could always fork it and convert it to C#. Massive undertaking though, and would be rather difficult if you don't know Pascal/Delphi.

I personally would love something like C#*, but I wouldn't go that route unless if something's drastic is done to the codebase. E.g. rebuild the insides from the ground up, keep the UI and the aesthetics "deled" but under the hood would be entirely rebuilt in order to promote extensibility and flexibility.

*I would love it because C# has been and still is my primary working language for over a year now. But I'm devoting a lot of my energies to my engine still, so the whole thing's rather moot to me.
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AWM Mars
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 1195
Location: Wilts England

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: No news Reply with quote

harper wrote:
No news are good news, i say!
When a forum visited frequently like this. and nearly nobody has something to say, it is a clearly positive vote for the program.
I am a victim of Soconne, who has abandoned the support. Two years of developing are scrap. Shame on Soconne, who could make his programme open-source or something else. But nothing. He's away. So i must take new looks on every engine, which has a useable world-editor to complete my thoughts. THAT'S BAD MANNER!
If anyone of you (beloved community) has an idea, how i can go on. tell it to me.
Meanwhile i found a group using OGRE, where i can work for.
But they make their own game - not mine.

Btw: 1 Deled-unit is approx. 1 cm in OGRE...

I can relate to what you are saying. I spent many years investing in a platform that was withdrawn at the point whereby it was put on the shelves for sale. (Adobe Atmosphere)
I did the same in Second Life, only to see the shift in behaviour/investment from the company owners towards its customers. I then invested a year+ into Blink, a scene manager, only to have that dropped and no longer supported.
I have tried many other platforms/scene managers but to little avail. Those that work, bork my models, either the normals, textures, materials, even the meshes.

Ogitor seems on the face of it to be useable, but it is what I call Middleware, you need to do some programming yourself, so not so good for Artists. If you like programming, try Panda3D it allows you to create environments using Python and C++, there is no graphic interface for model placement etc, thats all done in scripting Shocked . http://www.panda3d.org/
The closest I've come is irrEdit. It is still work in progress, but seems alive and kicking. http://www.ambiera.com/irredit/
You may also wish to checkout VastPark http://www.vastpark.com/

This is one of the main reasons, we have stopped what we are doing and focusing on developing our own scene manager programme. The collaboration server software is 100% and fully functioning, the player and Scene Management software are WIP and is expected hopefully by Christmas.
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Jeroen
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starnick wrote:

Could always fork it and convert it to C#. Massive undertaking though, and would be rather difficult if you don't know Pascal/Delphi.

I personally would love something like C#*, but I wouldn't go that route unless if something's drastic is done to the codebase. E.g. rebuild the insides from the ground up, keep the UI and the aesthetics "deled" but under the hood would be entirely rebuilt in order to promote extensibility and flexibility.

*I would love it because C# has been and still is my primary working language for over a year now. But I'm devoting a lot of my energies to my engine still, so the whole thing's rather moot to me.


Seeing the amount of coders currently contributing to DeleD is rather small, I wonder how many programmers would consider helping a rewrite to C#. It would be a massive undertaking indeed, and would require a considerable amount of project managent and, more importantly, devoted team members. Do note that devotion, imho, means providing considerable time for months if not years.

If DeleD was rewritten, I can see 2 major benefits at least:

- a cleaner "engine" under the hood, allowing for more programmers to understand what's going on and to extend the code (as in: being motivated to help out, because the code is relatively easy to understand, for as far as that is possible in an open source program, that is).
- using C# means more programmers would be interested to help out, allowing such rewrite to live much longer than a Delphi version

Of course, there's a lot to take into consideration before deciding to rewrite DeleD. I'm very curious to learn what other programmers would think about this. Perhaps we should open another topic to discuss things?
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chronozphere
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Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Could always fork it and convert it to C#. Massive undertaking though, and would be rather difficult if you don't know Pascal/Delphi.


I say this is practially impossible. You should just learn a C# and graphics programming and start from scratch again. The key is that you make "proper" design upfront, so you need to have a good understanding of Object-Oriented design too. I estimate that this would be way quicker and way more fun than trying to convert the more than 100.000 lines DeleD consists of. You could however, copy the concepts and algorithms of DeleD into a freshly written codebase. Wink

I've been playing with the idea of writing a DeleD-like editor from scratch. Smile Key features would be:
> Very easy to use and WYSIWYG. This attracts new beginning artists.
> Very easy to extend. This attracts programmers who need to have a good 3d tool.
I don't really want to compete with f.e Blender. Allthough this may be possible if I keep a low learning curve for this program.

I probably wouldn't use C# because that pretty much ties me to Microsoft platforms. I know mono is there, but there is no official and reliable support. I'd choose either Pascal or Java.

The pro's of pascal are that I know it very well now, and that it can be compiled to other platforms. Moreover, it's compiled code so intense graphics code would run fast. I'd only write the core in pascal, which can be extended with f.e C/C++ plugins.
Plugins could be written to expose the API to a scripting language like Lua or python.
The obvious con is that there are not many other pascal coders out there.

The pro's of java are that it's very portable and easy to learn. Also there are quite some people who know java well (Its very C#-like). The downside is that the whole program, including plugins must be written in java and that Java is alot slower than real compiled languages. This may be a problem because we are working with CPU-intensive graphics algorithms.

Right now, It's just an idea and it will remain an idea for a while. I can't make promises and I don't have time to start this project any time soon. However, if you are interested, please let me know. It motivates me. Very Happy [/list]
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Spaddlewit
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Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 244
Location: Florida, United States

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're concerned about portability, then you might want to go with C/Qt instead of Java. That way a lot of game code can be shared with DeleD...for example, I have a lot of model format loading code that is in C. Most computer graphics algorithms are in C too, and it would make for less headache, as it's a pain to do any low-level memory access in something like Java or even C#.

Sometimes I get frustrated in C# and just want a friggin' pointer to an array of bytes! But nooooo.....
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