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AWM Mars
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:07 am    Post subject: Jeroen - WebGL 2.0 Reply with quote

Spotted this post, wondered if you had read it. Cool

http://blogs.unity3d.com/2015/06/18/webgl-webassembly-and-feature-roadmap/
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Jeroen
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting read, AWM! That AngryBots demo looks mighty fine, too. Really shows what WebGL can do.

I will keep an eye on this - thanks!
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AWM Mars
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it is of any use to you, I am running the tech preview of Win10 Pro 64bit, with its built in browser (not the IE one), that I could run tests with, if you need.

Win10 Pro is surprisingly stable and smooth. They seem to have catered well for gamers as I get 1.5-2+ times the fps from the same games on a Win7 Pro system. What's surprising, Win7 is running off a SSD, whereas Win10 is HDD bound on my system. All the games run either DX9, 10 or 11 on both systems, using the same hardware.
I did a clean install on a unallocated dedicated HD with my SSD unplugged, once complete, plugged in and ran BCD on the Win7 setup so its quicker to dual boot.
I suspect by the end of the month, the load times will have improved with all the testing code gone and finally MS may have just gotten their act together. I run IOBIT Active Care Pro, which makes Win10 look/feel like Win7, but faster Smile without those nasty tablet icon menus.
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Gloomshroud
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am new to the community, but I have lurked these forums for a couple weeks now finding issues and looking at questions asked that I also have being answered and the like. Finally I'm going to take the plunge and dive in.

AWM Mars and DeleD admins, your names pop up a lot in these forums. I have had many questions and 95% of those questions have answers on these forums. Of those answers at least 50% were answered by you fine folks. So thank you for (indirectly) being my personal DeleD CE tutors. You are titans, sirs (or madames?).

As far as WebGL goes, I have been watching this for over 5 years now. I was privileged to be able to see one of the earliest tech demos of the first iteration of the technology. This is the future, and now that the browser giants are actually in agreement for once, I think we can expect big things from this platform in the future. It's really quite exciting.

Additionally, the web edition of DeleD has me drooling all over my keyboard. That just looks so delectably yummy. So nice. So so nice.
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AWM Mars
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstly, welcome to the very friendly and useful DeleD forums Cool

Mr name only crops up because I have more time on my hands than anyone else Very Happy

There are many here that I consider my peers. They will no doubt welcome you when they drop in (when they are not super busy).

Out of curiosity, as Mantle is somewhat OpenGL on steroids, what is your thoughts on it?
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Gloomshroud
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the gaming industry has come a long way since DirectX and OpenGL were innovated. As regards the power of computing today, the differences are astronomical compared to what they were in the late 90s, early 2000s. That being said, it is good to see some fresh contenders for the throne.

The one thing Mantle has going for it is a couple decades of experience and exposure. There are flaws in both DirectX and OpenGL that are still being struggled with today because they are a core, fundamental aspect of their construction. Mantle is able to extricate itself from these limitations by building on the mistakes and experience of its worthy predecessors. As an example of what I'm talking about, shader compilation has always been a GPU-intensive task. This is due to the way both Direct3D and OpenGL handle the calls. Mantle is completely free from that limitation and as a result its compilation times for the shaders are substantially reduced. The quality is the same, but the actual time it takes to render is decreased by almost orders of magnitude. Essentially Mantle does what any good innovation does: it stands on the shoulders of giants.

It is also ready to go for most platforms. That is, in no small part, due to today's market trend towards cross-platformability in most all software. Mantle, therefore, provides a nice bridge between platforms and a completely viable "middle-ground."

Of course, Mantle (like all software) is not perfect. It has some portions of it which are not ideal. However, the new API Vulkan announced at the GDC this year addresses those issues and pretty much nullifies any concerns. It is the next-gen. It is the future of open 3D rendering. Your description of "OpenGL on steroids" is NOT far off, in actuality.

The Vulcan API is somethign any serious developer of 3D applications should keep their eyes on.

All of this, of course, is my humble opinion.
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Jeroen
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there Gloomshroud, and welcome to these forums! Smile Thank you very much for your kind words - it is good to see you benefit from the contents of these forums as much as you do. Cool

WebGL is really exiting indeed. Combined with other recent technology, it allowed me to start DeleD Web Edition development. It's nice to hear DeleD WE got you all drooling. Very Happy The video is pretty outdated now. At the moment, I'm working on implementing an UV editor in DeleD Web Edition, together with (simple) material management. A 3D library now acompanies the editor, allowing people to show off their work with a single click. Support for importing/exporting OBJ files will also be part of the 1.0 release. I'm aiming for a beta release within a few months.

@AWM: when the beta is released, I would very much appreciate it if you can test it with Edge! Very Happy
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John
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Joined: 22 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeroen wrote:
Hi there Gloomshroud, and welcome to these forums! Smile Thank you very much for your kind words - it is good to see you benefit from the contents of these forums as much as you do. Cool

WebGL is really exiting indeed. Combined with other recent technology, it allowed me to start DeleD Web Edition development. It's nice to hear DeleD WE got you all drooling. Very Happy The video is pretty outdated now. At the moment, I'm working on implementing an UV editor in DeleD Web Edition, together with (simple) material management. A 3D library now acompanies the editor, allowing people to show off their work with a single click. Support for importing/exporting OBJ files will also be part of the 1.0 release. I'm aiming for a beta release within a few months.

@AWM: when the beta is released, I would very much appreciate it if you can test it with Edge! Very Happy


Very interesting. Is there going to be a plugin-type architecture for importing/exporting other model formats (aside from just OBJ)? If so, any details on how it is going to work? I would be interested in writing other plugins.
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Jeroen
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John wrote:

Very interesting. Is there going to be a plugin-type architecture for importing/exporting other model formats (aside from just OBJ)? If so, any details on how it is going to work? I would be interested in writing other plugins.


The 1.0 version won't have a plugin architecture on board but I am very interested in offering one in future versions especially because other programmers can write support for different model formats. Having support for as many formats as possible will increase DeleD's usability greatly, of course, which is definitely a goal of mine.

I haven't given a plugin architecture much thought yet, as it has a lower priority at the moment. I'm open for suggestions though, so do you have any thoughts on the subject yourself, John? Note that I am developing DeleD Web Edition using Typescript.
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John
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeroen wrote:
John wrote:

Very interesting. Is there going to be a plugin-type architecture for importing/exporting other model formats (aside from just OBJ)? If so, any details on how it is going to work? I would be interested in writing other plugins.


The 1.0 version won't have a plugin architecture on board but I am very interested in offering one in future versions especially because other programmers can write support for different model formats. Having support for as many formats as possible will increase DeleD's usability greatly, of course, which is definitely a goal of mine.

I haven't given a plugin architecture much thought yet, as it has a lower priority at the moment. I'm open for suggestions though, so do you have any thoughts on the subject yourself, John? Note that I am developing DeleD Web Edition using Typescript.

Will research this some more. Current thoughts on a plug-in architecture for import...
Have a server run a service written in CPP that looks at a directory on the server. When a new file containing a 3d model is uploaded to the server (via website) to this directory it reads the file (validate and parse) and asynchronously sends back data to the user's WebGL application formatted in JSON. After this is done the copy of the 3d model file is deleted on the server. Then the imported model appears in the user's WebGL when it is fully loaded. The "plugins" would reside on the server and they would be called by the CPP service mentioned above. The plugins themselves could be written in whatever can talk to CPP...like Python or simply another CPP DLL. If done this way the user does not have to change security options on their browser to load from a file on their local file system.
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Gloomshroud
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeroen wrote:
Hi there Gloomshroud, and welcome to these forums! Smile Thank you very much for your kind words - it is good to see you benefit from the contents of these forums as much as you do. Cool

WebGL is really exiting indeed. Combined with other recent technology, it allowed me to start DeleD Web Edition development. It's nice to hear DeleD WE got you all drooling. Very Happy The video is pretty outdated now. At the moment, I'm working on implementing an UV editor in DeleD Web Edition, together with (simple) material management. A 3D library now acompanies the editor, allowing people to show off their work with a single click. Support for importing/exporting OBJ files will also be part of the 1.0 release. I'm aiming for a beta release within a few months.

@AWM: when the beta is released, I would very much appreciate it if you can test it with Edge! Very Happy


Oh this is awesome. Looks like I picked a good time to learn DeleD. Speaking of which, will the knowledge I gain now transfer well to the new platform? Based on the video, the similarities are indeed there, but I didn't know if the platform itself introduced certain limitations versus a standalone format?

Also...I need to make a sheep for the game I'm developing (yes, a sheep). I am project lead, artist, and programmer all in one. One man show right here. However, my artistic skills are not top-notch. Neither are my programming skills, come to think of it...but anywho: Any pointers?
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John
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Joined: 22 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gloomshroud wrote:

Also...I need to make a sheep for the game I'm developing (yes, a sheep). I am project lead, artist, and programmer all in one. One man show right here. However, my artistic skills are not top-notch. Neither are my programming skills, come to think of it...but anywho: Any pointers?

Modeling in DeleD check if you have not already...
http://www.delgine.com/wiki/index.php/Tutorials
Suggestion for DeleD...learning how to use the keyboard may speed things up a bit. Suggest you stick to one viewport for now. Common keystrokes to navigate in the scene...
CTRL-P switch to perspective
CTRL-S switch to side view
CTRL-F switch to front view
CTRL-T switch to top view
SHIFT-RIGHT MOUSE BTN to move camera forward/back
CTRL-RIGHT MOUSE BTN to move camera side to side and up/down
RIGHT MOUSE BTN to rotate camera without moving it

Like any modelling program DeleD will make your head explode if you try to learn everything at once (although DeleD is one of the more intuitive ones). Start with something simple like creating a box primitive and play with the tools to modify it.
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granada
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Gloomshroud ,and welcome
Quote:
Looks like I picked a good time to learn DeleD


I think your right Very Happy ,you will like DeLeD . Very easy to use to Wink .

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AWM Mars
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To add my 2 cents worth, DeleD has to be one of the easiest 3D modelling programmes ever, given the complexity of its skill sets. The menu system is intuitive and based upon OS mainstream layouts, which is refreshing for anyone needing time away from the Ilks of Blender.

As far as your sheep, If I made one, I'd have to include a texture with Up, Back, Head, Leg on each component, so you could identify it, unless you want a Lego version Rolling Eyes
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Jeroen
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gloomshroud wrote:
Oh this is awesome. Looks like I picked a good time to learn DeleD. Speaking of which, will the knowledge I gain now transfer well to the new platform? Based on the video, the similarities are indeed there, but I didn't know if the platform itself introduced certain limitations versus a standalone format?

Much of the principles in DeleD CE will also be used in DeleD WE, so yeah, go ahead and dive right in. Smile The web technology I'm using does not introduce limitations compared to the Windows version of DeleD. The main principles, such as having all your tools in a tab, all materials in another tab etc are there. I am however improving/adding to some parts of the user interface, to make it even more intuitive than DeleD CE.

Some examples:
- everything you can do in a 2d view, you can do in a 3d view.
- most tools offer gizmos (visual helpers) to get the job done.
- a more logical layout of the Create/Edit tab.
- properties of objects are part of the Scene Inspector, which is a more logical place.
- the material editor and material picker are combined so you only have one place to manage your materials instead of two.
- we use shift, ctrl or both to handle the camera, in any view. So no ALT anymore.

Do note that the first version of DeleD WE will not have nearly as many tools as DeleD CE. They will get implemented over time. Smile

Gloomshroud wrote:

Also...I need to make a sheep for the game I'm developing (yes, a sheep). I am project lead, artist, and programmer all in one. One man show right here. However, my artistic skills are not top-notch. Neither are my programming skills, come to think of it...but anywho: Any pointers?

I'm a programmer, not a modeller, so I better not give advice in that area. Wink But perhaps you could ask Harper? Check out his work here: http://www.delgine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3830
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Last edited by Jeroen on Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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